Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby venice » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:04 pm

    

Chelsea wrote:
venice wrote:Beauty queens from Nordic countries are some of the most uninteresting from Europe. Swedish beauties are the only saving grace from the region. Iceland offers up a suprise at Miss World sometimes.

Finland hasn't placed at Miss World since 2014 and they haven't placed at Miss Universe in over a generation. Where Miss World is concerned they won't be missed because Europe always has huge contingent. France and Russia are the only countries that have any real impact on pageants on the continent. The countries of the United Kingdom also matter for Miss World.


When countries like Sweden, Norway, Finland and now maybe Denmark are stepping out of this pageant you can bet that Julia Morley and the whole Miss World team is in panic mode.
We are talking about countries that have a long history in this pageant. We have taken part from the start. Finland has not skipped one single year of this pageant since we first started participating. It's not about how well nordic countries have done, it's about continuity, coutries who don't just skip one year, be back the next and then again skip one year.

Miss World organisation has been able to count on these countries for license fees and just being there. We all know how Julia wants to keep this pageant the biggest in terms of participating countries. And now more and more countries from Europe are dropping out, countries that MW organisation has used to count on for being there. So yes, the are panicking, cause this effects the whole pageant. If more and more drop out, pretty soon the number is back under 100 and Julia does not want that.

The issue is NOT what countries you think is uninteresting and who YOU won't miss. It's about the whole pageant, not what certain pageant fans think of it.

Even as we speak I happen to know MW organisation is doing everything in their power to get these european countries back on the pageant.


I'm sure other organizations will take over. Miss World is a big brand. Clearly the current national director has missed the point. Finland is failing at other pageants despite sending their best. Except for at Miss International which isnt as competitive. I can't tell the last time I saw a Finnish beauty who is worthy of a placement. They are are all bland unprepared and uninteresting and forgettable. That's what needs to be fixed. Miss World is just an easy target for you because you have no interest in the charity aspect.


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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby venice » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:28 pm

The lazy organizers of Miss Suomi need to figure out what changed in the 1990s that caused their winners to perform so poorly in the decades after instead of trying to search for pageants that they think are easier to succeed in or win.
Clearly pageants are evolving and getting more competive. Being white, blonde and having a cute Nordic accents and looking good in a bikini isn't a winning formula anymore. It's no longer the 1950s or 1960s. Get with the times! Instead of coming here with your pompous asses bragging that your countries are withdrawing. Trust me viewers and pageant fans arent looking out for Finland. You are not Venezuela or The Philippines no matter how unbroken your participation is.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:02 pm

venice wrote:I'm sure other organizations will take over. Miss World is a big brand. Clearly the current national director has missed the point. Finland is failing at other pageants despite sending their best. Except for at Miss International which isnt as competitive. I can't tell the last time I saw a Finnish beauty who is worthy of a placement. They are are all bland unprepared and uninteresting and forgettable. That's what needs to be fixed. Miss World is just an easy target for you because you have no interest in the charity aspect.


No other organisation wants to take on the challenge of Miss World Finland because the lisence fee is that big. Sure they might try once or twice, but after they see that no amount of preperation will do, they will give up, unless MW organisation bring the license fee to a very small amount. But the amount the fee is now, no one will take it on board for more than one or two years.

And that is what I mean when I say they are panicking when they have lost a loyal franchise holders in these nordic countries especially Finland, an organisation that has sent a delegate EVERY year since the 60s. Once again I repeat, I don't give a rip which countries YOU will miss or any other pageant fan for that matter, I'm talking about who MW organisation will miss. And they will miss any country that has loyally until now paid the lisence fee each year.

BIT IN BOLD
Don't go mocking finnish girls being unprepared when you HAVE NO IDEA how hard our girls prepare and train themselves nowadays!
I happen to know they work REALLY hard with public speaking, catwalk, charity, everything that goes into a beauty pageant. Finland has also launched MORE THAN BEAUTY -ACADEMY that trains delegates towards national and international pageant. Nothing happens overnight and I'm sure it will be a long road, but don't speak and judge when you don't know the facts!

And about the charity, I have already stated numerous times that BWAP is a really important aspect of Miss World. The thing I find unfair is it's unfair judging where certain countries get overlooked no matter how good their projects are.

venice wrote:The lazy organizers of Miss Suomi need to figure out what changed in the 1990s that caused their winners to perform so poorly in the decades after instead of trying to search for pageants that they think are easier to succeed in or win.
Clearly pageants are evolving and getting more competive. Being white, blonde and having a cute Nordic accents and looking good in a bikini isn't a winning formula anymore. It's no longer the 1950s or 1960s. Get with the times! Instead of coming here with your pompous asses bragging that your countries are withdrawing. Trust me viewers and pageant fans arent looking out for Finland. You are not Venezuela or The Philippines no matter how unbroken your participation is.


:-@ :-@ :-@
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Jon A » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:10 am

Chelsea wrote:
Jon A wrote:I used Google translate and confirmed with a Finnish friend who is well connected to pageants in Finland.
The point about the 2 RU is that because she will not go to MW, she will go to some other pageant which they are looking for - and she specifically wants to go to one in Asia.

But the fact was very clear that to give the girl adequate time to prepare for MW, they will skip this year and hold a separate pageant in the spring to select someone for MW


We all know that google translate is not the most accurate translator. 8-}

https://www.iltalehti.fi/viihdeuutiset/ ... 94a5eaaf31
If THIS is the article you are referring to, then as a finn, who speaks finnish fluently (LOL) I can ASSURE you that in no part of this article does it say that the Miss Finland organisation is going to hold a Miss Finland World pageant next spring. Sunneva Kantola only confirms that we are skipping this year, and there is hopes to find some other pageant for the 2nd ru

And also side note, I happen to know FOR A FACT that there is no plans to held a Miss World Finland pageant, not by the Miss Finland organisation anyways.

If some modelling agency or other buys the MW license then they can do whatever. But Miss Finland organisation is not doing that.


This was not the article. They were talking specifically about MW and a spring contest. I'll try to find it. This one only talks about the 2 RU going to another contest.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Jon A » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:25 am

But I do think it is time that MWO found new orgs for Scandinavia. I can't remember the last girl from Norway, Sweden or Finland who was remotely competitive in any of the major contests. Miss Suomi is a disaster - most of these girls would not qualify for a college beauty contest in the US or any other place. Sweden and Norway are even worse. Froken Norge used to get solid contestants but after that it has all fallen apart.

BTW, Denmark will be at MW. And next year they will go back to having one contest. The intent this year was to have three contests - a Miss Universe Denmark, a ME Denmark and the grand finale Miss Danmark with the winner going to MW and RUs to MGI and MS. But that obviously has been too challenging.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:31 am

Jon A wrote:But I do think it is time that MWO found new orgs for Scandinavia. I can't remember the last girl from Norway, Sweden or Finland who was remotely competitive in any of the major contests. Miss Suomi is a disaster - most of these girls would not qualify for a college beauty contest in the US or any other place. Sweden and Norway are even worse. Froken Norge used to get solid contestants but after that it has all fallen apart.


Bit In Bold
Completely untrue. The real problem is that all of you beauty fans overlook finnish and other nordic girls year after year. And it's because we haven't done well in Universe and World, so you guys just keep on overlooking. On the flip side, you guys know that Miss International has been a good pageant for finnish girls, so no matter who we send you will always at least take notice of her, and then make up your minds on wherther or not she is potential.
Our current winner, Anni Harjunpää, is absolutely gorgeous and beautiful with massive potential :hx And if she was Miss USA, Miss Albania, Miss Poland she would be in every hot picks list.
Michaela Söderholm, Miss Finland 2017 was stunning also.

Now Finland knows (like I'm sure other Nordic countries know) that the girls need more training and preperation to do well, which is why Finland has launched MORE THAN BEAUTY -ACADEMY that will have new courses starting next month. The idea is to train girls who want to become Miss Finland, and also train them to international pageants. So Finland is keeping up with the changes and at least doing something.

And furthermore, you say Miss Suomi is a disaster, well at least we still have a national pageant with looong history and the same ogranisation behind it since 1962. And our pageant is televised each year. Unlike other Nordic countries, where their national competitions (Fröken Sverige, Fröken Norge) are no longer because they were sold years ago and the new owner brought the competitions to the ground. The same person also tried to buy Miss Suomi pageant around 2004. THANK GOD we didn't sell. So now it's only Miss Universe Sweden held in some club with no media coverage. Finland also has good media coverage througout the pagent and the winners become public figures here who are constantly being invited to different events and activities. Now this does not happen with other nordic countries.

Here is Miss FInland 2019, Anni Harjunpää. Do not go telling me that this face is a disaster and would not even make college level at USA if even that
Anni is much more beautiful and glamourous than for example many Miss USA delegates and more gorgeous than for example Miss USA 2018 winner Sarah Rose
Last edited by Chelsea on Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby IceCream.12 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:10 am

The thread becomes a HEAD TO HEAD challenge. =;)) :%))
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:31 pm

IceCream.12 wrote:
The thread becomes a HEAD TO HEAD challenge. =;)) :%))


I know, that wasn't the original idea I had in mind.
I was just trying to make conversation about the fact how weird it is that nordic countries are backing out of Miss World.
Last year Sweden, now Norway and Finland. Something is clearly going on....

But I shoud've known this getting turned into "Bye Felicia, you nordic countries and your boring delegates won't be missed" type of discussion. :-@
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Jon A » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:15 pm

Hmm. Maybe standards of beauty are different. I don't find the Finnish winner this year Anni attractive. However, overall I do agree that the batch was good, and actually I thought the best in about 10 years. The two runners up were really pretty imo. But to be successful at an international pageant one needs more than a pretty face.

I guess my point when I said Miss Suomi is not great any more was that training etc aside, I really don't believe that the girls we get from Miss Suomi are the best in Finland. Or maybe they are? But I doubt it! We have seen so many stunners from Finland - starting with Anne Marie Pohtamo who still is the standard of beauty for me! Personally the last two really standout girls I saw from Finland are Janina Forstell and Lola Odusaga. Of course, one cannot find a girl like that every year but I do believe that Finland is easily capable of finding a girl who could be competitive (if not necessarily successful) for the top 20 at any of these pageants. I think an example is what has happened in Netherlands after Kim Kotter took over.

I do appreciate the points you made - that Miss Suomi has stayed alive and on TV, that is not a minor thing. But I don't think that Enno (whatever his name was) did a lot to make it a desirable destination.

Glad to hear about the Finnish Beauty Academy. That should help! And I hope to see a strong return to MW - I certainly think that Finland could do very well there - with the high education levels and social orientation of the Finns, it is a pageant that should be well suited to the country, and MW is also a contest that looks at more subtle expressions of beauty. Let's face it - Finland will never be a Venezuela or Texas - where the way people naturally are is more aligned with what Miss Universe looks for.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby hauteegirl » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:48 pm

jalzamani wrote:
Chelsea wrote:
venice wrote:Beauty queens from Nordic countries are some of the most uninteresting from Europe. Swedish beauties are the only saving grace from the region. Iceland offers up a suprise at Miss World sometimes.

Finland hasn't placed at Miss World since 2014 and they haven't placed at Miss Universe in over a generation. Where Miss World is concerned they won't be missed because Europe always has huge contingent. France and Russia are the only countries that have any real impact on pageants on the continent. The countries of the United Kingdom also matter for Miss World.


When countries like Sweden, Norway, Finland and now maybe Denmark are stepping out of this pageant you can bet that Julia Morley and the whole Miss World team is in panic mode.
We are talking about countries that have a long history in this pageant. We have taken part from the start. Finland has not skipped one single year of this pageant since we first started participating. It's not about how well nordic countries have done, it's about continuity, coutries who don't just skip one year, be back the next and then again skip one year.

Miss World organisation has been able to count on these countries for license fees and just being there. We all know how Julia wants to keep this pageant the biggest in terms of participating countries. And now more and more countries from Europe are dropping out, countries that MW organisation has used to count on for being there. So yes, the are panicking, cause this effects the whole pageant. If more and more drop out, pretty soon the number is back under 100 and Julia does not want that.

The issue is NOT what countries you think is uninteresting and who YOU won't miss. It's about the whole pageant, not what certain pageant fans think of it.

Even as we speak I happen to know MW organisation is doing everything in their power to get these european countries back on the pageant.


Almost 110 countries are participating in Miss World and 7 more countries are gonna announce their candidates soon. Why Julia should be panic about a few non so well performing countries threatening to quit because of bitterness. Bye bye. Lol


The only reason why MW has more countries participating bcoz of the cheaper franchise compared to Miss Universe
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:16 pm

Jon A wrote:Hmm. Maybe standards of beauty are different. I don't find the Finnish winner this year Anni attractive. However, overall I do agree that the batch was good, and actually I thought the best in about 10 years. The two runners up were really pretty imo. But to be successful at an international pageant one needs more than a pretty face.


Yes, we all see beauty differently. To me Anni is extremely beautiful, really has that amazing model look, she is very photogenic.
In beauty wise she to me is right up there with many top countries at the moment which is my point with for example all hot pics lists. If she was Miss USA she would be on every list, because people would take notice due to the sash.

Now, I know like that to be succesfull at an international pageant is based more on other things. And that is what at least in Finland we are trying to make better.

I do appreciate the points you made - that Miss Suomi has stayed alive and on TV, that is not a minor thing. But I don't think that Enno (whatever his name was) did a lot to make it a desirable destination.


Which brings me to the next point and the reason I get so frustrated when people keep saying finnish girls and organization are lazy. And also blame other countries of being lazy and not up with the changings of the pageant world:

Just because we haven't had success at Universe or World lately, does NOT mean that we are lazy and don't care or train our girls. I mean who am I to say that about any othere country, when I don't know. The same goes with all of you, how do you know how hard these countries work and train. If we look at the top20 of Miss Universe each year, do you all really think that they are the ONLY countries that were working hard before the pageant?

The CEO of Finland was called Eino Makunen but he doesn't own the organisation anymore. Sunneva Kantola now owns 75% of the company, and Eino has 25%.
But the thing is, yes Eino was the owner from the year 1962 onwards and was behind Finland's golden years, you could say, but he is 87 years old now and the pageants as we know have changed, so there comes a point when everyone has to step down. And I call the years from 2000-2011 our black years. The pageant was horribly organised and there was NO SUPPORT for the girls. No training, nothing. They just gave you a planeticket and said good luck. And the standard of the Miss Finland finalists were pretyy much awful. And it wasn't untill 2010 when Sunneva Kantola joined in and started to arrange the tour that things started to slowly look bright again. Sunneva brought the pageant back to life and slowly the standard of girls was increasing and potential delegates are starting to see that Miss Finland is a title worth vying for again.

And now that Sunneva Kantola is the mainowner, training is increasing and things are starting to change. Now will this change our success in the pageant? Only time will tell....

But anyhow, when people write about us and other countries that don't do well for being lazy. I just get mad, you know.
Because don't write and blame on things you don't know. I'm sure lots of girls each year for each pageant train the best they can and work really hard and it's just unfair of pageant fans to point fingers and call them lazy.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:33 pm

hauteegirl wrote:The only reason why MW has more countries participating bcoz of the cheaper franchise compared to Miss Universe


Yeah, and it's not just that it's cheaper, some countries pay almost nothing for the franchise. It's all based on how rich your country is considered to be.
Miss Universe has a very high fee even for the minimum. And let's not forget that some countries DO pay more than the minimum. And let's not kid ourselves, that does count to placements
(I don't care, you can call me bitter again, it won't change the facts.....) 8-}

Miss World has high enough for certain countries which is why I think some are dropping out, because it's just too much.
Just because your country belongs to the top50 richest countries in the world doesn't mean your organisation has the ability to pay for these high franchise fee's.
So, it' a bit unfair that Miss World doesn't have a minimum that is same for all countries.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Jon A » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:02 pm

But why should MWO reduce the fee for any country? So they can afford the MUO franchise?
I am sure even with the higher rates they charge Finland, it is probably less than or the same as the Miss Universe fee

At least Finland has placed a couple of times at MW and there have been other occasions when the girls get exposure because of Talent etc - but in Miss Universe they are invisible entirely
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:25 pm

Jon A wrote:But why should MWO reduce the fee for any country? So they can afford the MUO franchise?
I am sure even with the higher rates they charge Finland, it is probably less than or the same as the Miss Universe fee

At least Finland has placed a couple of times at MW and there have been other occasions when the girls get exposure because of Talent etc - but in Miss Universe they are invisible entirely


They don't have to, of course not. They can do whatever.
But it is unfair to have a minimum of... let's just say between 5000-10 000 dollars/pounds for some countries and then have a minimum of 500 dollars/punds for other countries.
Miss Universe fee is high, but at least the minimum fee is the same for all.

Invisible for who though? See, let's talk about the exposure on finnish media, for example.
Absolutely NOTHING for Miss World and our delegates there? WHY? No interesting photos, no press photos. Not even interesting enough photos on the girls instagram.
Now, Miss Universe has national costume show, preliminary competition, lot's of press photos on their press site. A lot more interesting for the finnish media to write about.

So for any organisation that has sent girls to both pageants (like Norway and Finland), it's a choice where to send a delegate. And I think this is one of the issues that they have thought about now and decided to give one up. I believe it's frustration towards Miss World pageant. The format keeps changing way too ofter, the pre-requirments that delegates have to do keep before pageant keep changing, all of a sudden only ONE runner up. Like what are you doing, Miss World?
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby the critic » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:17 am

IT LOOKS LIKE CHELSEA HAS AN AXE TO GRIND WITH MISS WORLD ORGANIZATION OVER COMMON PRACTICE IN THEPAGEANT WORLD. LOL.
AS FAR AS FRANCHISE FEES GOES FROM WHAT I KNOW THEY ARE SOMEWHAT NEGOTIABLE. SOME COUNTRIES PAY MORE NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE RICH BUT BECAUSE PAGEANTS MIGHT BE MORE LUCRATIVE IN THEIR COUNTRIES OR BASED ON WHAT THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY AND OTHER FACTORS.
THAILAND WILL PAY MORE THAN FIJI FOR EXAMPLE BECAUSE THERE WILL LIKELY BE MORE ORGANIZATIONS IN THAILAND WILLING TO PAY FOR THE FRANCHISE WHICH WILL MAKE THE COST OF IT GO HIGHER AND THE FEES WILL ULTIMATELY BE A DECIDING FACTOR IN WHO GETS IT...ITS ALMOST LIKE BIDDING. WHEREAS FIJI MIGHT HAVE ONLY ONE ORGANIZATION WILLING TO TAKE ON THE FRANCHISE SO THE COST REMAINS LOW AND THEY STILL HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE.

THE COST OF THE FRANCHISE IS DETERMINED BY THE MARKET AND SEVERAL OTHER FACTORS. ITS THE RULE OF ECONOMY. I DON'T KNOW OF ANY ACTUAL DOLLAR VALUE OR ANY MINIMUM BEING OFFERED TO ANY COUNTRY. ITS THE SAME THING WITH HOSTING RIGHTS. SOME COUNTRIES WILL PAY MILLIONS TO HOST THE PAGEANT WHILE OTHERS WON'T. UNLESS YOU HAVE THE RECEIPTS YOU CAN'T SPEAK OF IT OR MAKE ANY CLAIMS.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby the critic » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:42 am

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I NEVER THOUGHT I'D EVER HEAR SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT A PAGEANT HAVING ONE ANNOUNCED RUNNER UP. DOESN'T THE PAGEANT ONLY HAVE ONE WINNER?

SERIOUSLY...ITS ONLY THE FIRST RUNNER UP THAT MATTER ANYWAY ON THE RARE OCCASION THAT THE WINNER CAN'T COMPETE HER REIGN.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Jon A » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:12 am

Chelsea you make no sense with your point about franchise fees

Why is it any different for MW to have different fees for countries than for Miss Universe? And the lower fees are only for some of the African countries - to recognize the actual and very real financial differences there and exchange rate issues.

Or is your issue simply that Miss Universe fees for Finland are on the lower end of the Miss Universe spectrum and MW on the higher end of their spectrum? And even so, I am fairly certain that the Miss Universe franchise for Finland is not less than the MW fee.

Or is it that you feel that DR Congo should be paying what Finland does?
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:55 am

the critic wrote:IT LOOKS LIKE CHELSEA HAS AN AXE TO GRIND WITH MISS WORLD ORGANIZATION OVER COMMON PRACTICE IN THEPAGEANT WORLD. LOL.
AS FAR AS FRANCHISE FEES GOES FROM WHAT I KNOW THEY ARE SOMEWHAT NEGOTIABLE. SOME COUNTRIES PAY MORE NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE RICH BUT BECAUSE PAGEANTS MIGHT BE MORE LUCRATIVE IN THEIR COUNTRIES OR BASED ON WHAT THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY AND OTHER FACTORS.


Of for God's sake. I was talking about the minimum fee. That is not negotiable.
Yes, WE ALL KNOW that some countries pay WAY MORE than what the minimun fee is, but that is THEIR CHOICE cause they want their girl to enter the semis.
Yes, you can pay more, but you can't pay less than what is the MINIMUN fee that international pageant have placed for your country.

And that is what I meant when I said that at least Miss Universe has the same amount of minimun fee. But of course you can pay 100 000 dollars for Miss Univese if you want to.


I DON'T KNOW OF ANY ACTUAL DOLLAR VALUE OR ANY MINIMUM BEING OFFERED TO ANY COUNTRY. ITS THE SAME THING WITH HOSTING RIGHTS. SOME COUNTRIES WILL PAY MILLIONS TO HOST THE PAGEANT WHILE OTHERS WON'T. UNLESS YOU HAVE THE RECEIPTS YOU CAN'T SPEAK OF IT OR MAKE ANY CLAIMS.


Yes, there is an actual dollar value that is required to pay for Miss Universe. They send the bill each year.
If you wanna pay WAY MORE you can. Come one, we all know this is happening. But the actual bill they send you is same in minimun to each country.

Miss World, it's not the same thing. They give a smaller minimun to certain countries.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:09 am

Jon A wrote:Chelsea you make no sense with your point about franchise fees

Why is it any different for MW to have different fees for countries than for Miss Universe? And the lower fees are only for some of the African countries - to recognize the actual and very real financial differences there and exchange rate issues.

Or is your issue simply that Miss Universe fees for Finland are on the lower end of the Miss Universe spectrum and MW on the higher end of their spectrum? And even so, I am fairly certain that the Miss Universe franchise for Finland is not less than the MW fee.

Or is it that you feel that DR Congo should be paying what Finland does?


Oh God, I give up.
If you people don't get the term minimum fee, then it's not my fault. 8-}
I'm through trying to explain this again 8-}

Like I said, Just because your country is in the top50 riches countries in the world, does not mean that your national pageants have the cash.
So it's a choice for the countries to choose where they send their girls.

The Miss World Finland franchise if free for grabs for anyone at the moment. (yes yes, we know. No one cares about us boring Nordic countries, we don't miss you. YAY)
Thank You and Good Night.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby the critic » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:43 am

Chelsea wrote:
the critic wrote:IT LOOKS LIKE CHELSEA HAS AN AXE TO GRIND WITH MISS WORLD ORGANIZATION OVER COMMON PRACTICE IN THEPAGEANT WORLD. LOL.
AS FAR AS FRANCHISE FEES GOES FROM WHAT I KNOW THEY ARE SOMEWHAT NEGOTIABLE. SOME COUNTRIES PAY MORE NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE RICH BUT BECAUSE PAGEANTS MIGHT BE MORE LUCRATIVE IN THEIR COUNTRIES OR BASED ON WHAT THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY AND OTHER FACTORS.


Of for God's sake. I was talking about the minimum fee. That is not negotiable.
Yes, WE ALL KNOW that some countries pay WAY MORE than what the minimun fee is, but that is THEIR CHOICE cause they want their girl to enter the semis.
Yes, you can pay more, but you can't pay less than what is the MINIMUN fee that international pageant have placed for your country.

And that is what I meant when I said that at least Miss Universe has the same amount of minimun fee. But of course you can pay 100 000 dollars for Miss Univese if you want to.


I DON'T KNOW OF ANY ACTUAL DOLLAR VALUE OR ANY MINIMUM BEING OFFERED TO ANY COUNTRY. ITS THE SAME THING WITH HOSTING RIGHTS. SOME COUNTRIES WILL PAY MILLIONS TO HOST THE PAGEANT WHILE OTHERS WON'T. UNLESS YOU HAVE THE RECEIPTS YOU CAN'T SPEAK OF IT OR MAKE ANY CLAIMS.


Yes, there is an actual dollar value that is required to pay for Miss Universe. They send the bill each year.
If you wanna pay WAY MORE you can. Come one, we all know this is happening. But the actual bill they send you is same in minimun to each country.

Miss World, it's not the same thing. They give a smaller minimun to certain countries.


THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS. IS THAT'S WHAT HAVE YOU MISCONSTRUED IN THINKING PAYING A HIGHER FRANCHISE FEE WILL INCREASE YOUR CHANCES OF PLACING? OBVIOUSLY FINLAND IS PROOF THAT IT ISN'T SO. WHY WOULD A COUNTRY PAY HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM PRICE OFFERED IF IT GUARANTEES NOTHING...AS IN THE CASE WITH NORDIC COUNTRIES. THATS MAKES NO SENSE FOR NEITHER SIDE.

MWO OFFERS THE FRANCHISE AT A COST BASED ON HOW LUCRATIVE IT IS PERCEIVED TO BE IN A COUNTRY AND THE LOCAL ORGANIZATION PAYS IT IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT BASED ON REAL ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES OR IF THE DEMAND ISNT HIGH FOR IT IN THAT COUNTRY IT CAN BE BROUGHT DOWN TO A COST AGREED BY BOTH PARTIES OR DECLINED. IT MIGHT INCREASE IN THE FUTURE OR IT MIGHT BE UP FOR BIDS IF ANOTHER ORGANIZATION COMES ALONG AND CAN OFFER SOMETHING BETTER TO THE MWO WHEN THE FRANCHISE IS UP FOR RENEWAL ANNUALLY. THATS HOW IT HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN. AND THATS WHY SOME ORGANIZATIONS LOSE THE FRANCHISE.

THERE'S NO GROUPING OF COUNTRIES BASED ON WEALTH. THERE ARE VERY POOR COUNTRIES THAT PAY HIGH FRANCHISE FEES JUST BECAUSE PAGEANTS ARE A BIG DEAL TO THEM. THERE ARE MANY SUCH COUNTRIES IN LATIN AMERICA AND ASIA THAT DO IT.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:07 am

the critic wrote:THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS. IS THAT'S WHAT HAVE YOU MISCONSTRUED IN THINKING PAYING A HIGHER FRANCHISE FEE WILL INCREASE YOUR CHANCES OF PLACING? OBVIOUSLY FINLAND IS PROOF THAT IT ISN'T SO. WHY WOULD A COUNTRY PAY HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM PRICE OFFERED IF IT GUARANTEES NOTHING...AS IN THE CASE WITH NORDIC COUNTRIES. THATS MAKES NO SENSE FOR NEITHER SIDE.

MWO OFFERS THE FRANCHISE AT A COST BASED ON HOW LUCRATIVE IT IS PERCEIVED TO BE IN A COUNTRY AND THE LOCAL ORGANIZATION PAYS IT IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT BASED ON REAL ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES OR IF THE DEMAND ISNT HIGH FOR IT IN THAT COUNTRY IT CAN BE BROUGHT DOWN TO A COST AGREED BY BOTH PARTIES OR DECLINED. IT MIGHT INCREASE IN THE FUTURE OR IT MIGHT BE UP FOR BIDS IF ANOTHER ORGANIZATION COMES ALONG AND CAN OFFER SOMETHING BETTER TO THE MWO WHEN THE FRANCHISE IS UP FOR RENEWAL ANNUALLY. THATS HOW IT HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN. AND THATS WHY SOME ORGANIZATIONS LOSE THE FRANCHISE.

THERE'S NO GROUPING OF COUNTRIES BASED ON WEALTH. THERE ARE VERY POOR COUNTRIES THAT PAY HIGH FRANCHISE FEES JUST BECAUSE PAGEANTS ARE A BIG DEAL TO THEM. THERE ARE MANY SUCH COUNTRIES IN LATIN AMERICA AND ASIA THAT DO IT.


:%)) I can't take this anymore.... =;)) You just don't get it.

Finland or any other nordic country IS NOT paying a higher fee by their own choice in hopes of doing better in the contest.
They are paying what MW organisation has put down on the contract as MINIMUN FEE for them and you are not being able to bring it down.
Miss World sets the price and it differes for each country.

My brain hurst that you don't get it :%))

And as for poor latin countries that pay high fees. Their countries may be poor, but their beauty pageants "community", their academys and such do have the cash thanks to certain sponsors.
Which is what I mean, you can't assume that just because your country is rich, your national directors are rich with lots of cash to spend on beauty pageants. A more poor country can have so much money to be spent on their beauty pageants and delegates cause they have rich sponsors. So yet again, the point remains that it in unfair to be be putting a price based on you country's overall wealth when that is not connected to the national pageants in no way.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby the critic » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:07 pm

Chelsea wrote:
the critic wrote:THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS. IS THAT'S WHAT HAVE YOU MISCONSTRUED IN THINKING PAYING A HIGHER FRANCHISE FEE WILL INCREASE YOUR CHANCES OF PLACING? OBVIOUSLY FINLAND IS PROOF THAT IT ISN'T SO. WHY WOULD A COUNTRY PAY HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM PRICE OFFERED IF IT GUARANTEES NOTHING...AS IN THE CASE WITH NORDIC COUNTRIES. THATS MAKES NO SENSE FOR NEITHER SIDE.

MWO OFFERS THE FRANCHISE AT A COST BASED ON HOW LUCRATIVE IT IS PERCEIVED TO BE IN A COUNTRY AND THE LOCAL ORGANIZATION PAYS IT IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT BASED ON REAL ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES OR IF THE DEMAND ISNT HIGH FOR IT IN THAT COUNTRY IT CAN BE BROUGHT DOWN TO A COST AGREED BY BOTH PARTIES OR DECLINED. IT MIGHT INCREASE IN THE FUTURE OR IT MIGHT BE UP FOR BIDS IF ANOTHER ORGANIZATION COMES ALONG AND CAN OFFER SOMETHING BETTER TO THE MWO WHEN THE FRANCHISE IS UP FOR RENEWAL ANNUALLY. THATS HOW IT HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN. AND THATS WHY SOME ORGANIZATIONS LOSE THE FRANCHISE.

THERE'S NO GROUPING OF COUNTRIES BASED ON WEALTH. THERE ARE VERY POOR COUNTRIES THAT PAY HIGH FRANCHISE FEES JUST BECAUSE PAGEANTS ARE A BIG DEAL TO THEM. THERE ARE MANY SUCH COUNTRIES IN LATIN AMERICA AND ASIA THAT DO IT.


:%)) I can't take this anymore.... =;)) You just don't get it.

Finland or any other nordic country IS NOT paying a higher fee by their own choice in hopes of doing better in the contest.
They are paying what MW organisation has put down on the contract as MINIMUN FEE for them and you are not being able to bring it down.
Miss World sets the price and it differes for each country.

My brain hurst that you don't get it :%))

And as for poor latin countries that pay high fees. Their countries may be poor, but their beauty pageants "community", their academys and such do have the cash thanks to certain sponsors.
Which is what I mean, you can't assume that just because your country is rich, your national directors are rich with lots of cash to spend on beauty pageants. A more poor country can have so much money to be spent on their beauty pageants and delegates cause they have rich sponsors. So yet again, the point remains that it in unfair to be be putting a price based on you country's overall wealth when that is not connected to the national pageants in no way.


THEN ITS THE JOB OF THE ORGANIZATION TO COMMUNICATE THAT TO THE MWO THAT THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY OR THAT THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO PAY THAT MINIMUM. THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE PAID IT YEAR AFTER YEAR MEANS THAT THEY HAVE THE MEANS TO DO SO. WHY COMPARE WITH WHAT OTHERS ARE PAYING? A CONTRACT IS BETWEEN TWO PARTIES. CHANCES ARE FINLAND DOESN'T EVEN PAY THE HIGHEST FEES THAT ARE CHARGED.

ITS PROBABLY BECOMING AN ISSUE TO THEM NOW BECAUSE THEY HAVE MEMBERSHIP IN MORE THAN ONE PAGEANT HENCE THE EXPENSE BECOMES A CHALLENGE. BUT WHY SINGLE OUT MISS WORLD FOR THEIR HIGH FEES? THE WINNER OF MISS SUOMI DOESN'T EVEN COMPETE AT MW AND LIKE WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID MISS WORLD ISNT THE ONLY PAGEANT WHERE THEY ARE FAILING FOR DECADES. I THINK THAT IS WHY JON A ASKED THIS QUESTION...But why should MWO reduce the fee for any country? IN THE CASE OF FINLAND IS IT TO LEAVE THEIR ACCOUNTS WITH MORE MONEY SO THEY FIND IT EASIER PAYING FOR THE OTHER FRANCHISES OF THE OTHER PAGEANTS THEY JOIN?
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Jon A » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:32 pm

Also Chelsea - I am sure there is basically a minimum fee for MUO - even if it is not stated as such. For sure, they are not offering the franchise for nothing. So it may be presented as just a "fee" or whatever, but it is probably exactly the same calculus as MWO - this is what they think is appropriate / obtainable from the country's organization. And for sure it is higher than what MWO is charging because everyone knows that MUO is quite extortionist when it comes to fees. But in the end, because the contests are shorter, the expenses even out.

I do get your point that just because the Nordic countries are rich it doesn't mean they can afford the higher fees. And maybe this will lead MWO / MUO to re-evaluate their asks in these countries. But to "the critic's" point - this is a negotiation, and generally MWO has tended to be far more supportive of their national franchises than other contests.

I hope Scandinavia does come back strong to MW and Miss Universe. I think everyone knows that some of the most beautiful girls are from there but they have severely underperformed relative to their raw talent pool and the resources available to them.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:12 pm

the critic wrote:THEN ITS THE JOB OF THE ORGANIZATION TO COMMUNICATE THAT TO THE MWO THAT THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY OR THAT THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO PAY THAT MINIMUM. THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE PAID IT YEAR AFTER YEAR MEANS THAT THEY HAVE THE MEANS TO DO SO. WHY COMPARE WITH WHAT OTHERS ARE PAYING? A CONTRACT IS BETWEEN TWO PARTIES. CHANCES ARE FINLAND DOESN'T EVEN PAY THE HIGHEST FEES THAT ARE CHARGED.


How do you know they haven't tried to explain that to the MWO? Yeah, which is why they are now dropping out, cause MWO is not giving them an option.


ITS PROBABLY BECOMING AN ISSUE TO THEM NOW BECAUSE THEY HAVE MEMBERSHIP IN MORE THAN ONE PAGEANT HENCE THE EXPENSE BECOMES A CHALLENGE. BUT WHY SINGLE OUT MISS WORLD FOR THEIR HIGH FEES? THE WINNER OF MISS SUOMI DOESN'T EVEN COMPETE AT MW AND LIKE WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID MISS WORLD ISNT THE ONLY PAGEANT WHERE THEY ARE FAILING FOR DECADES. I THINK THAT IS WHY JON A ASKED THIS QUESTION...But why should MWO reduce the fee for any country? IN THE CASE OF FINLAND IS IT TO LEAVE THEIR ACCOUNTS WITH MORE MONEY SO THEY FIND IT EASIER PAYING FOR THE OTHER FRANCHISES OF THE OTHER PAGEANTS THEY JOIN?


If you know how to read between the lines, this has already been explained to Jon and every one else.
It's not about failing, Finland and other countries that haven't had success in a while, don't see it as failing, as you put it. It is giving your delegates the best possible experience.
We here up north are not the only countries that have been frustrated at MW and their lack of activities etc. So the real question now is, is it worth it? And that is up to each country, including Finland.

Do you remember 2016 edition in D.C.? No activities, almost no chances getting dressed up glamourous. So the delegates, after sitting in a rehearsal room all day or running around DC in matching red and blue jackets had to dress up in the middle of the night and run to take pictures at the lobby, because they had sponsor gowns and dresses that needed to be photographed. Now, as shallow as this might sound to you and someone will be barking that MW is more than a dress up pageant and a gown is not what defines a winner (yes we all know that), but sponsors are important and many delegates have to be seen wearing these clothes that they have gotten from their own sponsors from their homelands.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:27 pm

Jon A wrote:Also Chelsea - I am sure there is basically a minimum fee for MUO - even if it is not stated as such. For sure, they are not offering the franchise for nothing. So it may be presented as just a "fee" or whatever, but it is probably exactly the same calculus as MWO - this is what they think is appropriate / obtainable from the country's organization. And for sure it is higher than what MWO is charging because everyone knows that MUO is quite extortionist when it comes to fees. But in the end, because the contests are shorter, the expenses even out.


Um, I'm sorry, did I miss something here?

What have I've been saying this WHOLE time? I have been saying that MUO has a minimun fee. Has that somehow not been clear on my messages?
I have repeated over and over again that MUO has a franchisee fee and it's THE SAME to all countries. That has been the point in all my messages. That MUO has the same amount for ALL countries. MWO has not. They are pricing their fees based on each countries overall wealth, which is not okey, cause the overall wealth of a country is in NO CONNECTION to their national pageant and what they are capable of paying.
But obviously, this is just my opinion. If you guys think that it's fair for MW to have a minimun fee of 1000 to certain countries and then 6000 to other countries then they hey, it's fine. You are allowed to think that.
And BTW, those are just random amounts, but the points remains that the gap can be that much.

And about Miss Universe still
as we all know, some countries pay WAY MORE than what MUO asks, but that is then their choice if they can afford that.

I hope Scandinavia does come back strong to MW and Miss Universe. I think everyone knows that some of the most beautiful girls are from there but they have severely underperformed relative to their raw talent pool and the resources available to them.


And I do hope that as well, as much as I think MW should re-think their formula of the pageant and that it's a snoozefest to watch, it sucks we are not participating. And that so far Iceland is the only nordic country in it. MW was once a glorious pageant and I hope it can be that again someday.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Jon A » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:29 pm

Chelsea wrote:
Jon A wrote:Also Chelsea - I am sure there is basically a minimum fee for MUO - even if it is not stated as such. For sure, they are not offering the franchise for nothing. So it may be presented as just a "fee" or whatever, but it is probably exactly the same calculus as MWO - this is what they think is appropriate / obtainable from the country's organization. And for sure it is higher than what MWO is charging because everyone knows that MUO is quite extortionist when it comes to fees. But in the end, because the contests are shorter, the expenses even out.


Um, I'm sorry, did I miss something here?

What have I've been saying this WHOLE time? I have been saying that MUO has a minimun fee. Has that somehow not been clear on my messages?
I have repeated over and over again that MUO has a franchisee fee and it's THE SAME to all countries. That has been the point in all my messages. That MUO has the same amount for ALL countries. MWO has not. They are pricing their fees based on each countries overall wealth, which is not okey, cause the overall wealth of a country is in NO CONNECTION to their national pageant and what they are capable of paying.
But obviously, this is just my opinion. If you guys think that it's fair for MW to have a minimun fee of 1000 to certain countries and then 6000 to other countries then they hey, it's fine. You are allowed to think that.
And BTW, those are just random amounts, but the points remains that the gap can be that much.

And about Miss Universe still
as we all know, some countries pay WAY MORE than what MUO asks, but that is then their choice if they can afford that.

I hope Scandinavia does come back strong to MW and Miss Universe. I think everyone knows that some of the most beautiful girls are from there but they have severely underperformed relative to their raw talent pool and the resources available to them.


And I do hope that as well, as much as I think MW should re-think their formula of the pageant and that it's a snoozefest to watch, it sucks we are not participating. And that so far Iceland is the only nordic country in it. MW was once a glorious pageant and I hope it can be that again someday.


That is SO NOT true, Chelsea
It doesn't matter how it is written, it is just a question of what it costs in the end. You can say it is a tax, it is a competitive bid whatever but the fact remains that in MUO, some countries pay 10-20x or more than others. You think that the difference between 500 and 10,000 is a lot - MUO charges some countries (the ones that place all the time) nearly $100,000 and others have had it for $3000. There is no such thing as a minimum for a country at MW, it is just what the historic benchmark has been set at.
And MUO does NOT offer the franchise at the same rate to different countries - I personally know NDs who have applied for the Miss Universe franchise in a different country and been offered a different rate. So I don't know where you get your information from but it is not true. AT ALL. Or it is outdated.
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:49 pm

Jon A wrote:That is SO NOT true, Chelsea
It doesn't matter how it is written, it is just a question of what it costs in the end. You can say it is a tax, it is a competitive bid whatever but the fact remains that in MUO, some countries pay 10-20x or more than others. You think that the difference between 500 and 10,000 is a lot - MUO charges some countries (the ones that place all the time) nearly $100,000 and others have had it for $3000. There is no such thing as a minimum for a country at MW, it is just what the historic benchmark has been set at.
And MUO does NOT offer the franchise at the same rate to different countries - I personally know NDs who have applied for the Miss Universe franchise in a different country and been offered a different rate. So I don't know where you get your information from but it is not true. AT ALL. Or it is outdated.


Whatever you say, Jon

I'm done trying to explain myself when some of you twist it around to mean something else and refuse to understand what I'm trying to say.
Now we are all just repeating ourselves over and over in each post and going round in circles and it's boring.

Not worth it anymore, especially since the original post that started this thread has nothing to do with these posts anymore.

May we all enjoy this pageant season to the fullest. >=p

Peace out :)>-
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby venice » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:31 am

I wonder how the bitter thread starter now feels that to date, all Nordic countries but Norway have confirmed participation in Miss World 2019.
I also wonder how she feels about activites and value for money knowing that Miss Finland will be competing in a 10 days long pageant in Atlanta where she'll likely clap for the 23rd year in a row. Hmmm?
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby Chelsea » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:56 am

venice wrote:I wonder how the bitter thread starter now feels that to date, all Nordic countries but Norway have confirmed participation in Miss World 2019.
I also wonder how she feels about activites and value for money knowing that Miss Finland will be competing in a 10 days long pageant in Atlanta where she'll likely clap for the 23rd year in a row. Hmmm?


No bitterness here, my friend 8-> Really glad that certain traditions did not break.

If you have read ALL the messages on this thread, then you'll see that I was actually right in my thoughts. I stated here that Nordic Countries ARE important to MWO, despite the fact that you all were barking how we are so so so so sooooo boring. Well, boring or not, much wanted in MW as the fact that two weeks before girls are supposed to fly to London, Nordic countries are back with such short notice. Goes to show you that MWO did everything in their power to get us back.

The owner of Miss Finland said that MWO actually CALLED (did not just send emails) to ask if Finland would reconsider their decision and send a delegate.

So bark all you want.... Bark away my friend. =c3
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Re: Nordic countries NOT COMPETING MW 2019! Thoughts?

Postby venice » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:13 am

Chelsea wrote:
venice wrote:I wonder how the bitter thread starter now feels that to date, all Nordic countries but Norway have confirmed participation in Miss World 2019.
I also wonder how she feels about activites and value for money knowing that Miss Finland will be competing in a 10 days long pageant in Atlanta where she'll likely clap for the 23rd year in a row. Hmmm?


No bitterness here, my friend 8-> Really glad that certain traditions did not break.

If you have read ALL the messages on this thread, then you'll see that I was actually right in my thoughts. I stated here that Nordic Countries ARE important to MWO, despite the fact that you all were barking how we are so so so so sooooo boring. Well, boring or not, much wanted in MW as the fact that two weeks before girls are supposed to fly to London, Nordic countries are back with such short notice. Goes to show you that MWO did everything in their power to get us back.

The owner of Miss Finland said that MWO actually CALLED (did not just send emails) to ask if Finland would reconsider their decision and send a delegate.

So bark all you want.... Bark away my friend. =c3


So import yet you clap more often than not. Ha ha.

But you're posts were so defiant as if it was the end of the road. Spoken like you were the national director. I didn't know such a strong position could be overturned in just a call in the last minute at that.

Just so you know all countries are important to Miss World Organization. The organization also kept in communication with Zimbabwe, Belize, Germany and Lebanon (all of which still decided not to compete because it's a CHOICE). You're not that special and it's not the first instance that countries announce representatives close to the start of the pageant. It happens to a handful of countries every year.
venice
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