krissynelli wrote:"INCLUSIVITY" SHOULD APPLY ALSO TO ABOVE 28 WOMEN, OVER 200 POUNDS GIRLS, HANDICAPPED AND MARRIED WOMEN...LET THEM COMPETE FIRST; BEFORE THE TRANSGENDER...THEIR'S DISCRIMINATION ALSO TO WHOM SHALL BE GIVEN---"INCLUSIVITY" ...IT DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND THE LGBT COMMUNITY!
MariaAndreina wrote:Pretty sure Miss Universe doesn't allow married women, pregnant women, women who have had a child, and women over 28 to compete.
Married women - "Miss" wont apply anymore
Pregnant women - unless not married, can be allowed. But can they do the job?
Unmarried women over 28 even with a child/children, as long as unmarried - should be able to be allowed first. I am more open to see a 40-year old empowered female to promote feminity and be a role model to young girls, young women, aspiring males of becoming a woman, and universal human population.
NhokShjn wrote:wokian2 wrote:sophocles wrote:Following your logic, Ms. Universe should be open to women of all ages. No age limit should be imposed. If inclusion is being used as an excuse to include ex-men in Miss Universe, it is easier to imagine a grandmother joining miss Universe - at least she is a natural-born woman. That is empowerment!
What about allowing women ex-convicts to join? What about allowing women with head to toe tattoos and piercings? Or a woman who will wear only a burka during the entire competition to be sensitive to the sentiments of the Muslim population in the world? At least they are natural-born women, and they have the most essential attribute that make them more qualified to join Miss Universe than Angela Ponce.
I'm ok with Ponce joining Miss Universe, but her supporters and IMG should stop pretending that this is a big step for inclusion, when the truth is that this is an attention-seeking publicity stunt.
Even the Olympics have strict gender requirements, and no one is complaining that it is non-inclusive. There is a special Olympics for the disabled. No one is proposing that the disabled compete with mainstream athletes in the name of inclusion.
The very nature of a competition is discrimination and distinction. You discriminate and distinguish to find the individual that embodies the excellence that is envisioned by the organizing institution. It is the wrong place to advocate for inclusion. Besides, the LGBT community should not advocate for inclusion just so they can join beauty pageants, which are nothing but modern-day meat markets. It should advocate for inclusion so they can be represented in government, science, and the arts, and so they can live normal lives like everyone else.
spot on.
inclusion in Miss Universe is asking too much, going too far and being insensitve. Its always not about LGBT. There are things we need to preserve.
LGBT should also respect the other member of the ecosystem. Do they care if there are people that feel uncomfortable changing the norm? Acceptance and tolerance has already been given.
Trans should still be considered as "third sex" rather than women. Term 'women' is often abused, i think it should stick to the term based on natural basis (like ability to conceive a child) and number of chromosomes. Not on simply on physical features. Identifying them as "third sex" would establish a better acceptance in the long run. But it is still unclear how events like Olympics and statistical census can adopt with this.
Lmaooo are y'all really comparing this situation to the Olympics?? Sports are different, women physically and biologically are not as strong as men if we disregard training. And for sure athletes with disability don't have all physical capabilities as other athletes, so for now the Paralympics exits. But they are actually thinking of merging both in the future. Some disabled athletes have competed in the Olympics, and they were praised for it.
Now in Miss Universe which is about aesthetics, you don't need physical abilities, you need to be commercially pretty and be able to speak and influence. Until a Miss Universe has to be able to give birth to win, transgender women don't have any biological constraint that prevent them from competing fairly.
Question?
we cannot be double sworded on not lloking at Olympics. If you want to ignore gender as means of classification, then dont overlook olympics. Olympics events are classified as MEN's and WOMEN's events, rather than (MALE or FEMALE) (example MEN's Basketball or WOMEN's Basketball) A male transexual woman is a "WOMAN" but still a biological MALE.
It makes perfect sense that a transwoman cannot join a woman's team, because of physical strength as pointed out. The same logic is for Miss Universe, we use the basis of their natural female characteristics (her experiences as a small girl, her struggles/triumphs growing as an adolescent and as a woman which are all dictated by her natural hormones and this is the exclusive ingredient for her to become a perfect role model to other young girls and other women). Which now makes me agree more that Miss Universe should remove the age limit totally.
Now in Miss Universe which is about aesthetics, you don't need physical abilities, you need to be commercially pretty and be able to speak and influence. Until a Miss Universe has to be able to give birth to win, transgender women don't have any biological constraint that prevent them from competing fairly.
Its more than beauty. Its not just about be able to speak.
Its where the influence will be coming from from within, how can a transwoman be a role model and influence young women and girls if she do not understand the real struggles and didnt experience it first hand? The experience and lessons that only a true natural woman can deliver, "sincerely and hollistically".
That is why Transsexuals needs their own pageant, to inspire and influence aspiring transexuals, address the real struggle they are facing and influence as perfectly as they can. In the same manner, natural females cannot address the real struggles transexuals are facing.